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	<title>Comments on: The Worst in the World</title>
	<atom:link href="http://climatesight.org/2009/11/29/the-worst-in-the-world/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://climatesight.org/2009/11/29/the-worst-in-the-world/</link>
	<description>Climate science and the public</description>
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		<title>By: kurogin</title>
		<link>http://climatesight.org/2009/11/29/the-worst-in-the-world/#comment-1707</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[kurogin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Dec 2009 00:33:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climatesight.org/?p=406#comment-1707</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[inflammatory]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[inflammatory]</p>
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		<title>By: MikeN</title>
		<link>http://climatesight.org/2009/11/29/the-worst-in-the-world/#comment-1546</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MikeN]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 21:42:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climatesight.org/?p=406#comment-1546</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I thought the point of Kyoto was to stop global warming, not to punish guilt.

The US, Europe, Australia, Japan, Russia, Canada, can shut off all of their emissions, and global warming would still happen,reducing warming by about 1C otu of 4C.

That the developing world has a small share of historical emissions doesn&#039;t change the fact that the emissions there are growing so much that  global  warming will not be reduced unless emissions there are reduced  substantially.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought the point of Kyoto was to stop global warming, not to punish guilt.</p>
<p>The US, Europe, Australia, Japan, Russia, Canada, can shut off all of their emissions, and global warming would still happen,reducing warming by about 1C otu of 4C.</p>
<p>That the developing world has a small share of historical emissions doesn&#8217;t change the fact that the emissions there are growing so much that  global  warming will not be reduced unless emissions there are reduced  substantially.</p>
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		<title>By: Mridul</title>
		<link>http://climatesight.org/2009/11/29/the-worst-in-the-world/#comment-1543</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mridul]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 15:00:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climatesight.org/?p=406#comment-1543</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Single digit targets that the United States and Canada are proposing won&#039;t work now. How can the developed countries expect the developing countries to cut their carbon emissions when they themselves are putting forward such dismal targets. It is had to believe in any of the recent emission target announcements as they seem to be have been announced only to dodge international pressure. Only the EU seems committed to its 20% proposal. 

The US Congress is debating putting nuclear, clean coal and free emission permits for industries, now how are you going to ask India, China to tax their coal power plants and shift to renewable energy sources. Australia&#039;s case is THE worst. The only major thing that Prime Minster Rudd has done is the ratification of Kyoto Protocol since then no national efforts have been taken towards reducing carbon emissions. Australia has the world&#039;s highest per capita emission levels. Since his election there have been talks of a carbon trading law but nothing concrete has happened, today again the Australian lawmakers rejected the carbon law. 

Efforts from the developed countries have been extremely disappointing.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Single digit targets that the United States and Canada are proposing won&#8217;t work now. How can the developed countries expect the developing countries to cut their carbon emissions when they themselves are putting forward such dismal targets. It is had to believe in any of the recent emission target announcements as they seem to be have been announced only to dodge international pressure. Only the EU seems committed to its 20% proposal. </p>
<p>The US Congress is debating putting nuclear, clean coal and free emission permits for industries, now how are you going to ask India, China to tax their coal power plants and shift to renewable energy sources. Australia&#8217;s case is THE worst. The only major thing that Prime Minster Rudd has done is the ratification of Kyoto Protocol since then no national efforts have been taken towards reducing carbon emissions. Australia has the world&#8217;s highest per capita emission levels. Since his election there have been talks of a carbon trading law but nothing concrete has happened, today again the Australian lawmakers rejected the carbon law. </p>
<p>Efforts from the developed countries have been extremely disappointing.</p>
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		<title>By: MikeN</title>
		<link>http://climatesight.org/2009/11/29/the-worst-in-the-world/#comment-1542</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MikeN]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 05:20:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climatesight.org/?p=406#comment-1542</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The 1990 benchmark is pointless because that is 20 years ago.  Actual cuts are reductions from current usage, so a 10% cut below 1990 levels means a much higher cut in actual emissions.

Also, the &#039;nondeveloped&#039; countries are the ones with more emissions now.
For example, according to Wikipedia&#039;s list of carbon emissions, the US is 20.2%, and the EU 13.8%.  If you add in Russia, Japan, Canada, South Korea, and Australia, you get 49% of global emissions in 2006.

If Canada agreed to a 50% cut below 1990 levels for her emissions by 2020, it would probably reduce global emissions by one half of a percent or even less.

By that time, the &#039;developed countries&#039; will probably account for just 25-30% of world emissions.  Any action that reduces global warming requires severe drops in emissions from developing countries, which are light years ahead of their 1990 emissions levels.  Changes in developed countries are a drop in the bucket.

&lt;em&gt;[The only reason 1990 is still a standard base year is that it was the one used in Kyoto, so it&#039;s easy to compare to. Developing countries need to reduce emissions too, but developed countries are more responsible for the damage that&#039;s already been caused, as it&#039;s the cumulative buildup of GHG rather than the instantaneous emission levels that matter. So over the long run, we&#039;re the guiltiest ones. -Kate]&lt;/em&gt;
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The 1990 benchmark is pointless because that is 20 years ago.  Actual cuts are reductions from current usage, so a 10% cut below 1990 levels means a much higher cut in actual emissions.</p>
<p>Also, the &#8216;nondeveloped&#8217; countries are the ones with more emissions now.<br />
For example, according to Wikipedia&#8217;s list of carbon emissions, the US is 20.2%, and the EU 13.8%.  If you add in Russia, Japan, Canada, South Korea, and Australia, you get 49% of global emissions in 2006.</p>
<p>If Canada agreed to a 50% cut below 1990 levels for her emissions by 2020, it would probably reduce global emissions by one half of a percent or even less.</p>
<p>By that time, the &#8216;developed countries&#8217; will probably account for just 25-30% of world emissions.  Any action that reduces global warming requires severe drops in emissions from developing countries, which are light years ahead of their 1990 emissions levels.  Changes in developed countries are a drop in the bucket.</p>
<p><em>[The only reason 1990 is still a standard base year is that it was the one used in Kyoto, so it's easy to compare to. Developing countries need to reduce emissions too, but developed countries are more responsible for the damage that's already been caused, as it's the cumulative buildup of GHG rather than the instantaneous emission levels that matter. So over the long run, we're the guiltiest ones. -Kate]</em></p>
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		<title>By: MikeN</title>
		<link>http://climatesight.org/2009/11/29/the-worst-in-the-world/#comment-1541</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MikeN]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 05:09:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climatesight.org/?p=406#comment-1541</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oops, 92-93 had a 5% jump for the US, so a 20% cut comes out to about 4% below 1990 levels.

Either way, these numbers are meaningless, since the chances of such cuts happening in ten years is very remote.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops, 92-93 had a 5% jump for the US, so a 20% cut comes out to about 4% below 1990 levels.</p>
<p>Either way, these numbers are meaningless, since the chances of such cuts happening in ten years is very remote.</p>
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		<title>By: MikeN</title>
		<link>http://climatesight.org/2009/11/29/the-worst-in-the-world/#comment-1540</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MikeN]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 05:03:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climatesight.org/?p=406#comment-1540</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Just look at Wikipedia&#039;s chart of carbon emissions by country, and you can calculate the equivalent emissions reductions for 1990.

It isn&#039;t that much of a change, since emissions from 2001-2008 were almost flat, the 90s had a small gain.  I suspect a 20% cut below 2005 levels means a 12% cut below 1990 levels.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just look at Wikipedia&#8217;s chart of carbon emissions by country, and you can calculate the equivalent emissions reductions for 1990.</p>
<p>It isn&#8217;t that much of a change, since emissions from 2001-2008 were almost flat, the 90s had a small gain.  I suspect a 20% cut below 2005 levels means a 12% cut below 1990 levels.</p>
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		<title>By: mspelto</title>
		<link>http://climatesight.org/2009/11/29/the-worst-in-the-world/#comment-1535</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mspelto]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 12:14:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climatesight.org/?p=406#comment-1535</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The comparison of Canada on Climate to Japan on whaling....http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cif-green/2009/nov/30/canada-tar-sands-copenhagen-climate-deal]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The comparison of Canada on Climate to Japan on whaling&#8230;.<a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cif-green/2009/nov/30/canada-tar-sands-copenhagen-climate-deal" rel="nofollow">http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cif-green/2009/nov/30/canada-tar-sands-copenhagen-climate-deal</a></p>
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		<title>By: Tony O'Brien</title>
		<link>http://climatesight.org/2009/11/29/the-worst-in-the-world/#comment-1532</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tony O'Brien]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 00:23:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climatesight.org/?p=406#comment-1532</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[And here in Australia the flat earth people (deniers) have just got control of the Liberal party (which is conservative) So the ETS which was to pass yesterday is now in trouble. That being a very wishy washy ETS that gave many free pollution permits to the biggest emitters

My own local member gets his science from WUWT, knows all their talking points.

If we will not even admit a problem then it would appear that most of our adaption is going to be post event. We won&#039;t build a new Sydney Airport untill planes are trying to land on the water.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And here in Australia the flat earth people (deniers) have just got control of the Liberal party (which is conservative) So the ETS which was to pass yesterday is now in trouble. That being a very wishy washy ETS that gave many free pollution permits to the biggest emitters</p>
<p>My own local member gets his science from WUWT, knows all their talking points.</p>
<p>If we will not even admit a problem then it would appear that most of our adaption is going to be post event. We won&#8217;t build a new Sydney Airport untill planes are trying to land on the water.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian D</title>
		<link>http://climatesight.org/2009/11/29/the-worst-in-the-world/#comment-1531</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brian D]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 21:02:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climatesight.org/?p=406#comment-1531</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You may have already seen &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/canadians-chagrined-over-status-as-climate-change-dawdlers/article1372296/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the poll&lt;/a&gt; showing some three-quarters of us are ashamed of our government&#039;s climate stance. 

Combine this with the (sadly, hollow) ultimatum at the Commonwealth summit in Trinidad/Tobago earlier this week - where &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/nov/26/canada-criticised-over-climate-change&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;calls were made for Canada&#039;s suspension from the commonwealth&lt;/a&gt; over its climate positions. For the record, if acted upon, this would put Canada in such esteemed company as Pakistan, Zimbabwe, and Uganda (all of whom have been suspended over human rights issues).

Just recently, as well, George Monbiot weighed in - first with a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/please-canada-clean-up-your-act/article1380768/#&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;letter in the Globe and Mail&lt;/a&gt; to all Canadians, and then with an &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cif-green/2009/nov/30/canada-tar-sands-copenhagen-climate-deal&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;article of his own&lt;/a&gt; on the subject. (Note that the article isn&#039;t up on his website yet; it&#039;s his custom to include citations when publishing on his personal site, but he leaves them out of his space-limited newspaper columns.) He&#039;ll be engaged in a debate (with Elizabeth May on his side) against Nigel Lawson and Bjorn Lomborg tomorrow on a similar issue (and sadly, since I&#039;m teaching, I&#039;ll have to miss it...).

All of this means diddly squat to Harper, of course (how much you want to bet he&#039;ll be &lt;a href=&quot;http://adoptanegotiator.org/2009/09/28/the-donut-the-newest-canadian-blocking-tactic-in-addressing-climate-change/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;looking for a Tim Horton&#039;s in Copenhagen&lt;/a&gt;?). In fact, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.terahertzatheist.ca&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;a friend of mine&lt;/a&gt; observes:
&lt;blockquote&gt;I could see Harper dropping the monarchy (which would help him consolidate even more power in the PMO) before listening to foreign influences, not to say that will sell here though.&lt;/blockquote&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You may have already seen <a href="http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/canadians-chagrined-over-status-as-climate-change-dawdlers/article1372296/" rel="nofollow">the poll</a> showing some three-quarters of us are ashamed of our government&#8217;s climate stance. </p>
<p>Combine this with the (sadly, hollow) ultimatum at the Commonwealth summit in Trinidad/Tobago earlier this week &#8211; where <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/nov/26/canada-criticised-over-climate-change" rel="nofollow">calls were made for Canada&#8217;s suspension from the commonwealth</a> over its climate positions. For the record, if acted upon, this would put Canada in such esteemed company as Pakistan, Zimbabwe, and Uganda (all of whom have been suspended over human rights issues).</p>
<p>Just recently, as well, George Monbiot weighed in &#8211; first with a <a href="http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/please-canada-clean-up-your-act/article1380768/#" rel="nofollow">letter in the Globe and Mail</a> to all Canadians, and then with an <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cif-green/2009/nov/30/canada-tar-sands-copenhagen-climate-deal" rel="nofollow">article of his own</a> on the subject. (Note that the article isn&#8217;t up on his website yet; it&#8217;s his custom to include citations when publishing on his personal site, but he leaves them out of his space-limited newspaper columns.) He&#8217;ll be engaged in a debate (with Elizabeth May on his side) against Nigel Lawson and Bjorn Lomborg tomorrow on a similar issue (and sadly, since I&#8217;m teaching, I&#8217;ll have to miss it&#8230;).</p>
<p>All of this means diddly squat to Harper, of course (how much you want to bet he&#8217;ll be <a href="http://adoptanegotiator.org/2009/09/28/the-donut-the-newest-canadian-blocking-tactic-in-addressing-climate-change/" rel="nofollow">looking for a Tim Horton&#8217;s in Copenhagen</a>?). In fact, <a href="http://www.terahertzatheist.ca" rel="nofollow">a friend of mine</a> observes:</p>
<blockquote><p>I could see Harper dropping the monarchy (which would help him consolidate even more power in the PMO) before listening to foreign influences, not to say that will sell here though.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: David R.</title>
		<link>http://climatesight.org/2009/11/29/the-worst-in-the-world/#comment-1530</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David R.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 19:54:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climatesight.org/?p=406#comment-1530</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m afraid the U.S. is only pledging a 3% reduction below 1990 levels.  See &lt;a href=&quot;http://throughagreenlens.com/2009/11/27/obama-is-going-to-copenhagen/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here.&lt;/a&gt;  This is supposed to be in line with W-M, but not as ambitious as the Senate bill.

The LA Times &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.latimes.com/news/nation-and-world/la-na-obama-climate26-2009nov26,0,6587075.story&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;reports &lt;/a&gt; 4%.

The EU has agreed to at least 20%.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m afraid the U.S. is only pledging a 3% reduction below 1990 levels.  See <a href="http://throughagreenlens.com/2009/11/27/obama-is-going-to-copenhagen/" rel="nofollow">here.</a>  This is supposed to be in line with W-M, but not as ambitious as the Senate bill.</p>
<p>The LA Times <a href="http://www.latimes.com/news/nation-and-world/la-na-obama-climate26-2009nov26,0,6587075.story" rel="nofollow">reports </a> 4%.</p>
<p>The EU has agreed to at least 20%.</p>
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